EBM Guide goals vs Scrum Guide goals

That seems to be the case that Martin Hinshelwood is making in this recent Scrum.org blog post, but I'm not sure that I agree with it. Two things stand out for me.

First, I don't see the value in comparing them. The Scrum Guide provides a clear definition for what a Product Goal and a Sprint Goal are is. Likewise, the EBM Guide provides a definitions and examples of Strategic Goals, Intermediate Goals, and Immediate Tactical Goals. Given the fact that you have two sets of definitions, I don't know what the value of relating them is over understanding and communicating the definition.

Second, even if you wanted to make the comparison, the goals from the EBM guide are at an organizational level. Consider organizations where not all teams are using Scrum. Some parts may be using other agile methods (including continuous flow, just-in-time methods that don't have a Sprint-like iteration), while others may be using plan-driven methodologies. Regardless of which methodology is used, an organization using EBM would still have these types of goals driving what different parts are working toward. Also consider an organization with a portfolio of products. If Scrum is being used, each would have its own current Product Goal and each team working on the product would have a Sprint Goal, but those would all be more specific than the organizational goals.

You could perhaps link the organizational's goals to a Scrum Team's goals in the context of a particular team. Each Scrum Team should ensure that their Product Goal and Sprint Goal are in support of the organization's Strategic Goal, Intermediate Goal, and Immediate Tactical Goal. I'm not necessarily sure that you can link a Product Goal to an Intermediate Goal.

Personally, I wouldn't compare the two types of goals. It seems like there is value in an organization adopting EBM. Tying it so closely to Scrum may be a turnoff for some organizations. It would be better, in my opinion, to take both EBM and Scrum at face-value, recognizing that there may be synergy in some cases where parts of an organization can embrace Scrum to support the use of EBM.

Thank you for sharing your vision Thomas. I was torn between making the comparison and seeing the goals as linked on one hand and having them separate on the other. Reading your comment and the blog of Martin gets me more sharing the vision of keeping them apart. Especially for the argument you made in the last section.

I was wondering, could you compare the Intermediate Goal of EBM with the Product Goal mentioned in the Scrum Guide and the Immediate Goal with the Sprint Goal?

In some contexts, yes. Other contexts may be radically different. Imagine you are a small specialist supplier, and your core business involves one team in a Nexus. Your entire strategy might be subordinate to a Product Goal.

So like any good consultant says:" It depends" ;-) But I get what you mean. In some situations, yes you can compare them. But in most cases keep them apart.