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when the PO is useless

Last post 10:37 pm January 23, 2025 by Pierre Pienaar
8 replies
04:35 pm January 20, 2025

I work in a project that is very complex.   Lot of math and finance analysis.

Stakeholders are expert users with deep business knowledge.   Developers ate actuaries or data scientist. 

As soon as I introduce them to each other, as a po, I'm out.

Development is basically made of one to one conversations, im not even invited. 

My attempt to create backlog and user stories are failing, as ther are are only placeholders saying that the dev is ongoing.

I cannot decide any priority, as the developers think that stakeholders have priority over me. Stakeholders/users, want everything they ask done on the fly. 

I can just listen and ask why are they late and inform my bboss.

Funny thing is that I was a mathematician myself, but my point of view is not considered useful. The scrum master is just doing cerimonies.

There is one guy that every day in the daily says: im working wit C.to implement the dashboard. Since 4 sprints. during reviews, I see something which I don't understand whether is working or not. The only user, declares himself happy and says that needs more work. If she leaves the company, I don't know what we achieved.

I don't understand what to do in this situation....

 

 


05:13 pm January 20, 2025

Are you accountable for all of the investments and ROI for this product over its lifetime?

Is there a budget for example, and do you hold it?


12:08 am January 21, 2025

First I would suggest work closely with the stakeholders and build relationships. It is not neccessary to understand the technical detail, but important is to understand which functionality is important to stakeholders, so that you can order the Product backlog. 
It's perfectly acceptable to add Product Backlog items in a skeletal form, as long as you can determine the importance and priority of each item from stakeholder discussions. In situations like this, it's common for the Product Owner to rely on developers (subject matter experts) and stakeholders to work out the finer details of the Product Backlog items. In fact, it's preferable for this close collaboration, rather than having all communication pass through the Product Owner. Then by injecting yourself into the conversations, you will over time learn more of the detail and the system. I understand the frustration, but don't be concerned as it is not uncommon. 

 


09:44 am January 21, 2025

Yes there is a budget, and I should be accountable.

But indeed is very hard to understand how the time and resorurces are spent if I dont see exactly what people are working on.

The tracking is very high level: one persin will work 50% on project x for 3 months. At the end we ll get a Sign off from the user/stakeholder. 

So , basically, whatever will be released, if the user declare herself happy, goal achieved.

It looks to me like a political situation, rather than real value. A part rare cases, the user wants to show that she was succesful at leading the project, and as she is also the "approver", bingo.

 

 


09:53 am January 21, 2025

Also the problem with "injecting" myslef into the conversation, is that i will not agree with what they are doing, i will try to push back on requirements, cut corner on certain things, in favour of other, and while i could easily do that in separate technical and business duscussion, it will be impossible in the common conversation. I know it sounds like I am hiding and holding information, but that is exactly what i would do with an external client.

Having no intermediary doesnt leave space to negotiation.

 


05:47 pm January 21, 2025

I don't understand what to do in this situation....

In my opinion, first ask yourself if the Scrum Team is incrementally delivering a product that the stakeholders find valuable.  If so, then keep doing what you are doing now.  

Second, ask yourself what you can do to help the Scrum Team become better at incrementally delivering a product that the stakeholders find valuable. 

It seems that your Scrum Team is not delivering a single product but are delivering multiple products to multiple stakeholders.  Do you really have a single product?  If so, what is it?  How do you define it? What is the Product Goal for that product? How does this product support your organizations goals and ability to remain viable?  How can the current work be used for long-term viability?

You may find that you aren't really a Product Owner but more of a Program Manager that is helping to drive initiatives forward. 


08:15 am January 22, 2025

Yes there is a budget, and I should be accountable.

But indeed is very hard to understand how the time and resorurces are spent if I dont see exactly what people are working on.

A PO doesn't need to see exactly what people are working on. A PO needs to know what experiments are being run each and every Sprint, and how the validated learning loop is being closed.

Take a look at the Scrum.org resources for Product Owners, including Evidence Based Management:

https://www.scrum.org/resources-product-owners


09:29 pm January 22, 2025

user wants to show that she was succesful at leading the project, and as she is also the "approver", bingo

Yes, I do have empathy for this. Politics is almost always present. 

To add from above, the question I would address is does it bring value to the product, does it move the product closer to the product goal.

The PO identifies the Product Goal and order the priority of the Product Backlog (PB). The specialist (developers) work out how to do the PB item, possible in collaboration with the stakeholders. Somewhere in the middle you will meet.

Do you have a Scrum Master on the team? I think you need a Scrum Master's assistance.


10:37 pm January 23, 2025

Apologies if I am lingering on this topic, but I feel you raised an important point that comes up often. Scrum.org has a good case study that addresses some of your concerns.
https://www.scrum.org/resources/intralinks-case-study-scrum-reboot-time-values 


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