Can BA ask question during standup about work progress?

I think the same rules would apply to a BA, and it's not mandatory for a BA to provide input. It's a meeting for the development team, so they should be the only ones providing input.

As a BA myself, I don't feel the need to contribute. I can listen to what the team says and ask any questions to the team after the standup. Just like a Product Owner would.

Business Analyst cannot be a member of either the Development Team nor the Scrum Team at large, since BA is not one of the three Scrum roles.

Are you sure that someone with business analysis skills cannot help fulfill the Development Team role?

Are you sure that someone with business analysis skills cannot help fulfill the Development Team role?

Actually I copied the line- 'Business Analyst cannot be a member of either the Development Team nor the Scrum Team at large, since BA is not one of the three Scrum roles' from your answer to one of the post in below forum:

https://www.scrum.org/forum/scrum-forum/5551/my-team-never-finishes-all…

After reading this line only I decided to post this question. My understanding was BA is a part of development team and should be considered as any other development team member.

If BA were to be a critical part of knowledge for the product the ST is building, what would be the impact on the purpose of a ST in general if the BA was lacking?

That's why I advise considering whether someone with business analysis skills cannot help fulfill the Development Team role. If that person sees themselves as fulfilling some other role (such as BA), rather than bringing skills and focus areas to the team, then the integrity of the team may be compromised. However, with 5 years hindsight I would not argue that the two things are necessarily mutually exclusive.

That's why I advise considering whether someone with business analysis skills cannot help fulfill the Development Team role. If that person sees themselves as fulfilling some other role (such as BA), rather than bringing skills and focus areas to the team, then the integrity of the team may be compromised. However, with 5 years hindsight I would not argue that the two things are necessarily mutually exclusive.

It's a bit confusing to interpret above thing what you have mentioned. Can you please explain in a bit more simpler way ?

I believe you have mentioned 'BA is not part of development team at large' in below thread in some different context. Can you please elaborate in what context you have mentioned it.

https://www.scrum.org/forum/scrum-forum/5551/my-team-never-finishes-all…

If BA were to be a critical part of knowledge for the product the ST is building, what would be the impact on the purpose of a ST in general if the BA was lacking?

You are pointing at BA should be a part of development team but one of the Ian's post on below thread made me ask this question. So I am clarifying from him in what context he said BA is not a part of development team at large.

https://www.scrum.org/forum/scrum-forum/5551/my-team-never-finishes-all…

There's nothing wrong with bringing business analysis, or any other skill-set, into a development team. What a prospective team member cannot do is to import their current non-Scrum role into a team with the expectation that it ought to be recognized.

This does not necessarily mean that an organization has to get rid of its existing roles. It does mean that such roles (e.g. BA) have no standing in a Scrum Team. The skills a person brings, however, may very well be of value.

There's nothing wrong with bringing business analysis, or any other skill-set, into a development team. What a prospective team member cannot do is to import their current non-Scrum role into a team with the expectation that it ought to be recognized.

This does not necessarily mean that an organization has to get rid of its existing roles. It doesmean that such roles (e.g. BA) have no standing in a Scrum Team. The skills a person brings, however, may very well be of value.

If I understood you correctly, you mean BA can be a part of development team and he/she will need to be treated just like any other development team member. His skill set (Requirements gathering, analysis) should be used but should not be treated as different role- i.e., Business Analyst. 

Thanks for clarification Ian.

Scrum Guide starts the section describing the Development Team with this sentence (emphasis added by me).

The Development Team consists of professionals who do the work of delivering a potentially releasable Increment of "Done" product at the end of each Sprint.

If a Development Team needs the skills of a Business Analyst to "do the work..." then a BA should be part of the Development Team.  And yes, if they are part of the team then they participate as full member.  They should be included in the Daily as a full participant but they should not be acting like a manager.  They participate in the planning for the next day while also informing of the work they have done for the last day. 

This also means that they are focusing on the work that has been forecast by the Development Team to meet the Sprint Goal and not on looking ahead to future. If the benefit the BA provides to the Scrum Team is wholly towards the Product Backlog, then I don't see them as part of the Development Team but as an aid to the Product Owner. Notice I said aid and not a proxy.  The PO is still the PO and there is not proxy. However, just like a Business Analyst could be part of the Development Team if their skills are appropriate for the work, I can also see where a Business Analyst could play the role of Product Owner in full. 

The answer lies very much in the type of contribution that is provided by the individual with the organizational title of Business Analyst.  Scrum does not recognize titles. It recognizes skills that contribute to the incremental delivery of value and designates roles to that skill set. Organizational titles do not have to agree with the role being played.

@Ian, @Dan,

Here's my view on this. Previously, Ian had clarified why the Business Analyst role is considered a part of the Development Team and I agree it is a needed skill. However, the real issue that lies with most teams that call themselves Development Teams is that they still have silos i.e. there is a Developer who only codes, a Tester who only tests, and a BA who usually does the business analysis work. I've rarely seen (in my experience) members from these silos blending into other skillsets.

Also is it mandatory for BA to give his/her updates ?

From experience I understand what you mean by updates and how this is practiced, but it gives the impression that there is some form of command and control. Now, here's where the problem comes and it touches the question that Vishal asked. In my experience, whenever I am part of a Daily Scrum, and when the turn comes to the BA, the BA rarely has anything to contribute related to the current Sprint, he/she would be working on something else that is usually needed for another Sprint. In this regard I agree to what Dan mentioned about BA's being an aid to the Product Owner.

If the benefit the BA provides to the Scrum Team is wholly towards the Product Backlog, then I don't see them as part of the Development Team but as an aid to the Product Owner.

The reason I concur with this suggestion is because, it reduces the overhead of communication during a Daily Scrum. Just having to pass by each individual only to hear "I have nothing to add" etc. is just a waste of that persons time (in my opinion). Reducing 3 BA's from the Daily Scrum makes it that much more simple. I'd like to further add that this is not just a problem with the BA role, but this is applicable at times to the Testers too. Always, the focus is on the Developers.

At the end, I am not saying the BA and the PO cannot attend the Daily Scrum, they can, but they should have the flexibility not to if they are strictly not part of the Development Team. However, when they are considered part of the Team, they are automatically placed into the Development Team and as a result they are forced to attend the Daily Scrum because the recommendation is that all members of the Daily Scrum should be present and should attend.

At the end, I am not saying the BA and the PO cannot attend the Daily Scrum, they can, but they should have the flexibility not to if they are strictly not part of the Development Team. However, when they are considered part of the Team, they are automatically placed into the Development Team and as a result they are forced to attend the Daily Scrum because the recommendation is that all members of the Daily Scrum should be present and should attend.

I can completely understand your view but I would like to change it a bit  - 'BA should be present however it should be on him/her to give updates or not'.

Reasons are : 

1. If you give him/her freedom not to attend , most of time he/she won't.

2. If the team has any queries with respect to requirements , team can be clarify in 16th minute of standup. 

3. By being present in standup BA will also get to know how is team progressing with respect to requirements

4. It will be easier to convince other team members why BA is not required to giving daily updates than to convince it's ok for BA not to be present in daily standup. 

I can completely understand your view but I would like to change it a bit  - 'BA should be present however it should be on him/her to give updates or not'.

@Vishal, I think you've misunderstood my statements... IF the BA's only function is to gather requirements and do analysis, then what work are they doing in the current/active Sprint that contributes to the Sprint Goal? What value do they add by being forced to join the meeting? If they want to listen in on the progress, do you think they would join without being asked?

I mentioned that it would be better for them not to join, only because it makes no sense for them to be mandatorily joining a meeting only to say "I have no updates".

Consider this, Why is it not mandatory for the Scrum Master or the Product Owner to attend the Daily Scrum? Does this mean the Scrum Master or the Product Owner cannot attend? Why can't the BA be in a position similar to them? The Product Owner also needs to know the progress of work to communicate to stakeholders, if they don't attend the Daily Scrum, how else can they track progress of work?

We should remember that there is nothing in the Scrum Guide that says every Developer must speak during a Daily Scrum. I have seen occasions (e.g. when using the "Walking the board" technique) where certain team members did not feel the need to speak. I would still expect the entire Development Team to be present, as it is typical that they will need to co-ordinate and collaborate.

If a BA is part of the Development Team, a logical conclusion may be to understand which of the work they do is backlog refinement, and which could be brought into the current sprint, perhaps as separate items on the Sprint Backlog, or perhaps as part of the existing items on the Sprint Backlog.

If the Scrum Team has a more outcome focused Sprint Goal, the BA might be playing an active role in adapting the plan towards achieving that Sprint Goal, as their continued analysis provides evidence for a particular approach.

While the BA is likely to remain the expert in business analysis, if their contribution to the Development Team is valued, other developers may seek opportunities to cross-skill, in order to be able to support this vital function of the team.

I mentioned that it would be better for them not to join, only because it makes no sense for them to be mandatorily joining a meeting only to say "I have no updates".

Consider this, Why is it not mandatory for the Scrum Master or the Product Owner to attend the Daily Scrum? Does this mean the Scrum Master or the Product Owner cannot attend? Why can't the BA be in a position similar to them?

I would like to disagree with this statement - "It makes no sense for BA to be mandatorily joining a meeting only to say "I have no updates". Because he is a part of development team ..so apart from giving updates he can collaborate and help other development team members. Scrum Master is not a part of development team.

As Simon has mentioned - ' I would still expect the entire Development Team to be present, as it is typical that they will need to co-ordinate and collaborate.'